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eGunny
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I understand that we need this confirmation process. I think John Kerry and Barbara Boxer were unduly rude to Condi Rice. Those 2 just used that forum to take jabs at her and Bush.

[ QUOTE ]
Rice was visibly irked when Boxer said, “I personally believe — this is my personal belief — that your loyalty to this mission to sell this war overwhelmed your respect for the truth.”

[/ QUOTE ]

And then Rice's response...... :waytogo:

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“We can have this discussion in any way that you would like, but I really hope you will refrain from impugning my integrity,” Rice replied. “I really hope that you will not imply that I take the truth lightly.”



[/ QUOTE ] My money would be on Rice that she would kick Boxers a**........ :smirk:
 

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[ QUOTE ]
this is my personal belief — that your loyalty to this mission to sell this war overwhelmed your respect for the truth.”

[/ QUOTE ]


I'm no fan of Boxer, but I happen to agree. Patriotism can be a beautiful thing, but sometimes it can cloud a persons judgement.

For some people patriotism is a sense of national responsibility approached with the steady dedication of a lifetime. But for others it is a short, frenzied outburst of emotions.







.
 

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It's not a rubber-stamp, warm fuzzy puppies committee, it's a confirmation. Rice DESERVED to be dressed down for the administration double-talk and changing rationale for the war because she's accountable. If she can't take it, she shouldn't be Secretary of State anymore than she should have been Security Adviser.

I wish they hadn't confirmed her, actually. Listening to the hearings, it was plainly obvious that she takes her role as a team player over her responsibility to act in the best interests of the country. Powell got it and was never in the inner circle - they even hung him out to dry at the UN. Rice will play nice and simply parrot the party line. Madeline Albright I liked...she was a tough bastard.

That said, yes she would take Boxer out back and slap her around like a redheaded stepchild. :wink:
:waytogo:
 

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ENP - all the democrats are acting like fools! First they don't get their way regarding Iraq, then Bush gets re-elected :lol: It makes for great entertainment though :waytogo:

Here is the rest of CR's answer: :applause: :applause: :applause:

"I have never ever lost respect for the truth in the service of anything. It is not my nature, it is not my character," Rice said. "And I would hope that we can have this conversation and discuss what happened before and what went on before and what I said, without impugning my credibility or my integrity."

She added that while the Bush administration "did face a very difficult intelligence challenge," it knew that Saddam Hussein was a troublemaker who was threatening neighbors, cavorting with terrorists and "was the world's most dangerous man in the world's most dangerous region" who had previously used weapons of mass destruction.

"But, Senator Boxer, we went to war, not because of aluminum tubes. We went to war because this was the threat of weapons of mass destruction in the hands of a man against whom we had gone to war before, who threatened his neighbors, who threatened our interests, who was one of the world's most brutal dictators and it was high time to get rid of him. And I'm glad that we're rid of him," Rice said


:applause: :applause: :applause:
 

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eGunny
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
[ QUOTE ]
approached with the steady dedication of a lifetime

[/ QUOTE ]That would be me..... :waytogo:

[ QUOTE ]
she was a tough bastard.


[/ QUOTE ] I think if I am not mistaken that a she is called a b*tch........ :grin:

SPAZ ~ I saw on the news today, Calif actually used their death penalty. Like your governor would even think of giving him a reprieve..... :808876-nono:
 

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Rice can stick that sanctimonious "freedom deficit" crap right up her...

We have zero problem with Saudi Arabia's monarchy, we supported the Shah of Iran, Anatasio Somoza, Saddam Hussein (!) and Manuel Noriega (!). Give me a BREAK that the interests of the Iraqi people were even the slightest consideration when this policy was developed and implemented.

Whatever happened to the buck stops HERE? If you're going to be in charge, be in charge. There was nothing in the appropriations bill authorizing force against Hussein because he was a big meanie - it was because he was an immediate threat due to having WMDs. I love how mission creep is disguised as altruism. :rolling:
 

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[ QUOTE ]
PorradaVFR said:
Rice can stick that sanctimonious "freedom deficit" crap right up her...

We have zero problem with Saudi Arabia's monarchy, we supported the Shah of Iran, Anatasio Somoza, Saddam Hussein (!) and Manuel Noriega (!). Give me a BREAK that the interests of the Iraqi people were even the slightest consideration when this policy was developed and implemented.

Whatever happened to the buck stops HERE? If you're going to be in charge, be in charge. There was nothing in the appropriations bill authorizing force against Hussein because he was a big meanie - it was because he was an immediate threat due to having WMDs. I love how mission creep is disguised as altruism. :rolling:

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And Porrada knows all of this because he is a Knight of the Round Table. I say we attack Iran after American Idol is over and there is nothing to watch on TV. Let's do it for the people of Iran.

Mob
 

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[ QUOTE ]
I say we attack Iran after American Idol is over and there is nothing to watch on TV. Let's do it for the people of Iran.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's probably more thought than Rumsfeld/Cheney/Bush put into the invasion of Iraq decision. And certainly more reason than that "free the people" bullshit.
Bad news Mob, Iran is 4x the land size and 3x the population of Iraq, (that place where there aren't enough boots on the ground to seal the border and effectively stomp out the insurgents).
Just my opinion, but Rice can't stand up to Rumsfeld or Cheney, and will just be a puppet/mouthpiece for their agenda. I love that little spat about "impugning her integrity" like she had any. If you listen to most of what she has said over the past four years objectively, you'll know she has no credibility to burn.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
MobRule said:
[ QUOTE ]
PorradaVFR said:
Rice can stick that sanctimonious "freedom deficit" crap right up her...

We have zero problem with Saudi Arabia's monarchy, we supported the Shah of Iran, Anatasio Somoza, Saddam Hussein (!) and Manuel Noriega (!). Give me a BREAK that the interests of the Iraqi people were even the slightest consideration when this policy was developed and implemented.

Whatever happened to the buck stops HERE? If you're going to be in charge, be in charge. There was nothing in the appropriations bill authorizing force against Hussein because he was a big meanie - it was because he was an immediate threat due to having WMDs. I love how mission creep is disguised as altruism. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

And Porrada knows all of this because he is a Knight of the Round Table. I say we attack Iran after American Idol is over and there is nothing to watch on TV. Let's do it for the people of Iran.

Mob

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. Iraq. Afghan. and the Blue states were enough. We are taking the year off to get drunk. :tongue:
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Canes said:
[ QUOTE ]
MobRule said:
[ QUOTE ]
PorradaVFR said:
Rice can stick that sanctimonious "freedom deficit" crap right up her...

We have zero problem with Saudi Arabia's monarchy, we supported the Shah of Iran, Anatasio Somoza, Saddam Hussein (!) and Manuel Noriega (!). Give me a BREAK that the interests of the Iraqi people were even the slightest consideration when this policy was developed and implemented.

Whatever happened to the buck stops HERE? If you're going to be in charge, be in charge. There was nothing in the appropriations bill authorizing force against Hussein because he was a big meanie - it was because he was an immediate threat due to having WMDs. I love how mission creep is disguised as altruism. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

And Porrada knows all of this because he is a Knight of the Round Table. I say we attack Iran after American Idol is over and there is nothing to watch on TV. Let's do it for the people of Iran.

Mob

[/ QUOTE ]

Sorry. Iraq. Afghan. and the Blue states were enough. We are taking the year off to get drunk. :tongue:

[/ QUOTE ]

I think John Stewart puts it best in his book America: The Book when he says something like, "Red and blue states are just an invention of the media, who has nothing worthwhile to report upon".
 

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People love to make the Iraq situation sound so horrible and so hopeless, this sounds a bit worse to me...and we all know how that turned out

LIFE Magazine: Americans Are Losing the Victory in Europe

January 7, 1946

We are in a cabin deep down below decks on a Navy ship jam-packed with troops that’s pitching and creaking its way across the Atlantic in a winter gale. There is a man in every bunk. There’s a man wedged into every corner. There’s a man in every chair. The air is dense with cigarette smoke and with the staleness of packed troops and sour wool.

“Don’t think I’m sticking up for the Germans,” puts in the lanky young captain in the upper berth, “but…”

“To hell with the Germans,” says the broad-shouldered dark lieutenant. “It’s what our boys have been doing that worries me.”

The lieutenant has been talking about the traffic in Army property, the leaking of gasoline into the black market in France and Belgium even while the fighting was going on, the way the Army kicks the civilians around, the looting.

“Lust, liquor and loot are the soldier’s pay,” interrupts a red-faced major.

The lieutenant comes out with his conclusion: “Two wrongs don’t make a right.” You hear these two phrases again and again in about every bull session on the shop. “Two wrongs don’t make a right” and “Don’t think I’m sticking up for the Germans, but….”

The troops returning home are worried. “We’ve lost the peace,” men tell you. “We can’t make it stick.”

A tour of the beaten-up cities of Europe six months after victory is a mighty sobering experience for anyone. Europeans. Friend and foe alike, look you accusingly in the face and tell you how bitterly they are disappointed in you as an American. They cite the evolution of the word “liberation.” Before the Normandy landings it meant to be freed from the tyranny of the Nazis. Now it stands in the minds of the civilians for one thing, looting.

You try to explain to these Europeans that they expected too much. They answer that they had a right to, that after the last war America was the hope of the world. They talk about the Hoover relief, the work of the Quakers, the speeches of Woodrow Wilson. They don’t blame us for the fading of that hope. But they blame us now.

Never has American prestige in Europe been lower. People never tire of telling you of the ignorance and rowdy-ism of American troops, of out misunderstanding of European conditions. They say that the theft and sale of Army supplies by our troops is the basis of their black market. They blame us for the corruption and disorganization of UNRRA. They blame us for the fumbling timidity of our negotiations with the Soviet Union. They tell us that our mechanical de-nazification policy in Germany is producing results opposite to those we planned. “Have you no statesmen in America?” they ask.


The Skeptical French Press

Yet whenever we show a trace of positive leadership I found Europeans quite willing to follow our lead. The evening before Robert Jackson’s opening of the case for the prosecution in the Nurnberg trial, I talked to some correspondents from the French newspapers. They were polite but skeptical. They were willing enough to take part in a highly publicized act of vengeance against the enemy, but when you talked about the usefulness of writing a prohibition of aggressive war into the law of nations they laughed in your face. The night after Jackson’s nobly delivered and nobly worded speech I saw then all again. They were very much impressed. Their manner had even changed toward me personally as an American. Their sudden enthusiasm seemed to me typical of the almost neurotic craving for leadership of the European people struggling wearily for existence in the wintry ruins of their world.

The ruin this war has left in Europe can hardly be exaggerated. I can remember the years after the last war. Then, as soon as you got away from the military, all the little strands and pulleys that form the fabric of a society were still knitted together. Farmers took their crops to market. Money was a valid medium of exchange. Now the entire fabric of a million little routines has broken down. No on can think beyond food for today. Money is worthless. Cigarettes are used as a kind of lunatic travesty on a currency. If a man goes out to work he shops around to find the business that serves the best hot meal. The final pay-off is the situation reported from the Ruhr where the miners are fed at the pits so that they will not be able to take the food home to their families.

“Well, the Germans are to blame. Let them pay for it. It’s their fault,” you say. The trouble is that starving the Germans and throwing them out of their homes is only producing more areas of famine and collapse.

One section of the population of Europe looked to us for salvation and another looked to the Soviet Union. Wherever the people have endured either the American armies or the Russian armies both hopes have been bitterly disappointed. The British have won a slightly better reputation. The state of mind in Vienna is interesting because there the part of the population that was not actively Nazi was about equally divided. The wealthier classes looked to America, the workers to the Soviet Union.

The Russians came first. The Viennese tell you of the savagery of the Russian armies. They came like the ancient Mongol hordes out of the steppes, with the flimsiest supply. The people in the working-class districts had felt that when the Russians came that they at least would be spared. But not at all. In the working-class districts the tropes were allowed to rape and murder and loot at will. When victims complained, the Russians answered, “You are too well off to be workers. You are bourgeoisie.”

When Americans looted they took cameras and valuables but when the Russians looted they took everything. And they raped and killed. From the eastern frontiers a tide of refugees is seeping across Europe bringing a nightmare tale of helpless populations trampled underfoot. When the British and American came the Viennese felt that at last they were in the hands of civilized people. But instead of coming in with a bold plan of relief and reconstruction we came in full of evasions and apologies.

U.S. Administration a Poor Third

We know now the tragic results of the ineptitudes of the Peace of Versailles. The European system it set up was Utopia compared to the present tangle of snarling misery. The Russians at least are carrying out a logical plan for extending their system of control at whatever cost. The British show signs of recovering their good sense and their innate human decency. All we have brought to Europe so far is confusion backed up by a drumhead regime of military courts. We have swept away Hitlerism, but a great many Europeans feel that the cure has been worse than the disease.

The taste of victory had gone sour in the mouth of every thoughtful American I met. Thoughtful men can’t help remembering that this is a period in history when every political crime and every frivolous mistake in statesmanship has been paid for by the death of innocent people. The Germans built the Stalags; the Nazis are behind barbed wire now, but who will be next? Whenever you sit eating a good meal in the midst of a starving city in a handsome house requisitioned from some German, you find yourself wondering how it would feel to have a conqueror drinking out of your glasses. When you hear the tales of the brutalizing of women from the eastern frontier you think with a shudder of of those you love and cherish at home.

That we are one world is unfortunately a brutal truth. Punishing the German people indiscriminately for the sins of their leader may be justice, but it is not helping to restore the rule of civilization. The terrible lesson of the events of this year of victory is that what is happening to the bulk of Europe today can happen to American tomorrow.

In America we are still rich, we are still free to move from place to place and to talk to our friends without fear of the secret police. The time has come, for our own future security, to give the best we have to the world instead of the worst. So far as Europe is concerned, American leadership up to now has been obsessed with a fear of our own virtues. Winston Churchill expressed this state of mind brilliantly in a speech to his own people which applies even more accurately to the people of the U.S. “You must be prepared,” he warned them, “for further efforts of mind and body and further sacrifices to great causes, if you are not to fall back into the rut if inertia, the confusion of aim and the craven fear of being great.”

Another article from that LIFE magazine issue... (sounds familiar, replace Hitler with Saddam, replace Germany with Iraq, replace Europe with Middle East and you see A LOT of connections)

The first winter of peace holds Europe in a deathly grip of cold, hunger and hopelessness. In the words of the London Sunday Observer: “Europe is threatened by a catastrophe this winter which has no precedent since the Black Death of 1348.”

These are still more than 25,000,000 homeless people milling about Europe. In Warsaw nearly 1,000,000 live in holes in the ground. Six million building were destroyed in Russia. Rumania has her worst drought of 50 years, and in Greece fuel supplies are terribly low because the Nazis, during their occupation, decimated the forests. In Italy the wheat harvest, which was a meager 3,450,000 tons in 1944, fell to an unendurable 1,304,000 tons in 1945. In France, food consumption per day averages 1,800 calories as compared with 3,000 calories in the U.S.

Germany is sinking even below the level of the countries she victimized. The German people are still better clothed than most of Europe because during the war they took the best of Europe’s clothing. But their food supply is below subsistence level. In the American zone they beg for the privilege of scraping U.S. army garbage cans. Infant mortality is already so high that a Berlin Quaker, quoted in the British press, predicted. “No child born in Germany in 1945 will survive. Only half the children aged less than 3 years will survive.”

On Germany, which plunged the Continent into its misery, falls the blame for its own plight and the plight of all Europe. But if this winter proves worse even than the war years, blame will fall on the victor nations. Some Europeans blame Russia for callousness to misery in eastern Europe. But some also blame America because they expected so much more from her. On the following pages the distinguished novelist John Dos Passos, who has been abroad as LIFE correspondent, reports on Europe’s suffering and what it means for America.




....I still think I've heard this SOMEwhere before, just can't put my finger on it.
 

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eGunny
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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6842774/

Look what the cheese d*cks are up to now.........

But Democrats to delay confirmation on floor

[ QUOTE ]
She was the first nominee for secretary of state to receive any “no” votes since Alexander M. Haig in 1981.


[/ QUOTE ] If they want to put her in General Haigs company. Well then that is not too shabby. I like the General. You Democrats are sure a sore loser.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Canes said:
[ QUOTE ]
Sorry. Iraq. Afghan. and the Blue states were enough. We are taking the year off to get drunk. :tongue:

[/ QUOTE ]

I had no idea GW had fallen off the wagon. :cwm27:
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Ninjaslayer said:
If they want to put her in General Haigs company. Well then that is not too shabby. I like the General. You Democrats are sure a sore loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

*spits out beer*

You like HAIG?!?! "I'm in charge here" Haig?!?! The guy who didn't even have a clue about the Constitution's order of succession? I sit amazed. :shocked:
 

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eGunny
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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
[ QUOTE ]
PorradaVFR said:
[ QUOTE ]
Ninjaslayer said:
If they want to put her in General Haigs company. Well then that is not too shabby. I like the General. You Democrats are sure a sore loser.

[/ QUOTE ]

*spits out beer*

You like HAIG?!?! "I'm in charge here" Haig?!?! The guy who didn't even have a clue about the Constitution's order of succession? I sit amazed. :shocked:

[/ QUOTE ]I just like the fact he had the cojones to say it I guess...... :smirk:
 

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[ QUOTE ]
Ninjaslayer said:
I just like the fact he had the cojones to say it I guess...... :smirk:

[/ QUOTE ]

Dude, that didn't take cojones, it took someone with delusions of grandeur and little knowledge of the very government he served in. Come on...that's like the janitor walking into a Board meeting and informing them that he was the acting CEO.

...ok, bad metaphor, but you see my point. :bird:
 
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