I just am not sure what to think of the president calling for the lowering of the flag for the victims of the giant earthquake and tsunami. The world is full of tragedy and certainly this one is enormous. However, lowering the flag should be reserved for US citizens IMHO. Has the flag been lowered for any of the militarty men and women that have died in Iraq?
US Flag Lowered for Tsunami Victims
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FunBob said:
I just am not sure what to think of the president calling for the lowering of the flag for the victims of the giant earthquake and tsunami. The world is full of tragedy and certainly this one is enormous. However, lowering the flag should be reserved for US citizens IMHO. Has the flag been lowered for any of the militarty men and women that have died in Iraq?
[/ QUOTE ]Actually it has been by state and local governments. I am sure the Federal Government has done it also......
FunBob said:
I just am not sure what to think of the president calling for the lowering of the flag for the victims of the giant earthquake and tsunami. The world is full of tragedy and certainly this one is enormous. However, lowering the flag should be reserved for US citizens IMHO. Has the flag been lowered for any of the militarty men and women that have died in Iraq?
[/ QUOTE ]Actually it has been by state and local governments. I am sure the Federal Government has done it also......
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Just for the record FunBob, Americans did perish in that tragedy; what is the big deal if we lower our flags in a show of respect for those who died?
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Fun Bob, I'm with you on this. It shows ignorance of protocol on the president's part.
It took me all of a minute to find this --
"On the following days, the flag is to be flown at half-mast for the entire day:
May 15 - Peace Officers Memorial Day
July 27 - Korean War Veterans Armistice Day
December 7 - Pearl Harbor Day
The flag should fly at half-staff for 30 days at all federal buildings, grounds, and naval vessels throughout the United States and its territories and possessions after the death of the president or a former president."
It took me all of a minute to find this --
"On the following days, the flag is to be flown at half-mast for the entire day:
May 15 - Peace Officers Memorial Day
July 27 - Korean War Veterans Armistice Day
December 7 - Pearl Harbor Day
The flag should fly at half-staff for 30 days at all federal buildings, grounds, and naval vessels throughout the United States and its territories and possessions after the death of the president or a former president."
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TravellinJones said:
Fun Bob, I'm with you on this. It shows ignorance of protocol on the president's part.
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Might want to check section 10 of the regulations on the flag:
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Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation
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Technically, he can order it flown at half-mast when his dog dies. Obviously, he can't please everyone (I'm sure someone would complain if he chose not to lower the flag), but he certainly hasn't violated protocol.
TravellinJones said:
Fun Bob, I'm with you on this. It shows ignorance of protocol on the president's part.
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Might want to check section 10 of the regulations on the flag:
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Any rule or custom pertaining to the display of the flag of the United States of America, set forth herein, may be altered, modified, or repealed, or additional rules with respect thereto may be prescribed, by the Commander in Chief of the Armed Forces of the United States, whenever he deems it to be appropriate or desirable; and any such alteration or additional rule shall be set forth in a proclamation
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Technically, he can order it flown at half-mast when his dog dies. Obviously, he can't please everyone (I'm sure someone would complain if he chose not to lower the flag), but he certainly hasn't violated protocol.
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Gruneun, thanks for the help. This time I spent over half an hour looking but couldn't find the passage you cited. I did find references to "officials and dignitaries", but I don't consider holiday vacationers washed off the beach to be in that class.
Where does it end? If it can be justified for this, it can be justified for things that happen every day. Do we now lower the flag every time a tourist abroad runs afoul of nature? That just cheapens the meaning of the gesture. When everyone is special, no one is special.
This seems to be blatant grandstanding. Flip-flopping, I believe the White House calls it. After taking flak for the initial paltry offer of aid, it's now become a national tragedy. :rolling:
Where does it end? If it can be justified for this, it can be justified for things that happen every day. Do we now lower the flag every time a tourist abroad runs afoul of nature? That just cheapens the meaning of the gesture. When everyone is special, no one is special.
This seems to be blatant grandstanding. Flip-flopping, I believe the White House calls it. After taking flak for the initial paltry offer of aid, it's now become a national tragedy. :rolling:
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TravellinJones said:
After taking flak for the initial paltry offer of aid, it's now become a national tragedy. :rolling:
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Are you kidding me? The first aid offer was made rather quickly without knowing the full assesment of all the damage. We are certainly not the only country to increase our aid and I'll remind you that when the gov. pledged $15 at first it said it was only the begining of our aid. Saudi Arabia as far as I know didn't offer any aid immediately, then pledged $10mil and just a couple days ago tripled it to $30mil. The French also upped their aid donations after the number of dead rose. Remember, when the US pledged it's initial $15million...the number known dead was below 20,000 and now its what over 160,000 and still climbing? Austrailia and Germany didn't handout anything HUGE a day or two after the tsunami, but now they have...Japan pledge $500mil and is considering more. With Colin Powell and Jeb Bush in the area today/yesterday saying the damage was more than they had anticipated and with a tsunami summit tomorrow...our government's dollar figure pledge could be raised again.
Plus, I don't think the $15mil, $35mil or $350mil numbers ever included the cost of bring in all those US ships that can purify water and carry aid to the region, nor the helicopters that have proved so useful in getting aid to those who need it. We won't even get into private/non-government aid the US will give, which I think are pretty safe to say will be larger than any other countries private donations. So please, spare us... :bird:
TravellinJones said:
After taking flak for the initial paltry offer of aid, it's now become a national tragedy. :rolling:
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Are you kidding me? The first aid offer was made rather quickly without knowing the full assesment of all the damage. We are certainly not the only country to increase our aid and I'll remind you that when the gov. pledged $15 at first it said it was only the begining of our aid. Saudi Arabia as far as I know didn't offer any aid immediately, then pledged $10mil and just a couple days ago tripled it to $30mil. The French also upped their aid donations after the number of dead rose. Remember, when the US pledged it's initial $15million...the number known dead was below 20,000 and now its what over 160,000 and still climbing? Austrailia and Germany didn't handout anything HUGE a day or two after the tsunami, but now they have...Japan pledge $500mil and is considering more. With Colin Powell and Jeb Bush in the area today/yesterday saying the damage was more than they had anticipated and with a tsunami summit tomorrow...our government's dollar figure pledge could be raised again.
Plus, I don't think the $15mil, $35mil or $350mil numbers ever included the cost of bring in all those US ships that can purify water and carry aid to the region, nor the helicopters that have proved so useful in getting aid to those who need it. We won't even get into private/non-government aid the US will give, which I think are pretty safe to say will be larger than any other countries private donations. So please, spare us... :bird:
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TravellinJones said:
Gruneun, thanks for the help. This time I spent over half an hour looking but couldn't find the passage you cited.
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I found the code at the US Government Printing Office. I could rant for hours on the government's ability to bury every piece of meaningful information, but I do enough of that at work. I would say they do it on purpose, but I work with plenty of federal employees and I just can't give them that much credit.
Personally, I don't think the flag should have been lowered, for the same reason that the President shouldn't attend funerals of soldiers KIA. Not because either group isn't deserving of that respect, but granting that honor to some means that it's a perceived slight for any similar cases that didn't get that recognition.
TravellinJones said:
Gruneun, thanks for the help. This time I spent over half an hour looking but couldn't find the passage you cited.
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I found the code at the US Government Printing Office. I could rant for hours on the government's ability to bury every piece of meaningful information, but I do enough of that at work. I would say they do it on purpose, but I work with plenty of federal employees and I just can't give them that much credit.
Personally, I don't think the flag should have been lowered, for the same reason that the President shouldn't attend funerals of soldiers KIA. Not because either group isn't deserving of that respect, but granting that honor to some means that it's a perceived slight for any similar cases that didn't get that recognition.
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While I think the offers of aid are both the right thing from a humanitarian and even strategic standpoint, I wonder how the hell the US and Japan, both running massive national debts, found hundreds of millions to spare. Granted, even $500 million is a "small" amount vis a vis GDP, but DAMN that seems like a lot to spend with no planning.
I'm still shocked by the damn tsunami...the satellite images are astounding, and the footage of those poor bastards caught up in it. Damn.
I'm still shocked by the damn tsunami...the satellite images are astounding, and the footage of those poor bastards caught up in it. Damn.
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ENP, I've said elsewhere that the $15 million was probably commensurate with the level of damage known at the time.
What I'm saying here is that lowering the flag is a self-serving move. The honor should be reserved for those who have served at the highest levels of government. Now when you see the flag at half-mast you won't know if it's because former President Carter died, or a van full of skiers on vacation drove off a cliff.
Porrada, the money came from the same place as the other hundreds of billions of dollars the government spent that it doesn't have -- the future.
What I'm saying here is that lowering the flag is a self-serving move. The honor should be reserved for those who have served at the highest levels of government. Now when you see the flag at half-mast you won't know if it's because former President Carter died, or a van full of skiers on vacation drove off a cliff.
Porrada, the money came from the same place as the other hundreds of billions of dollars the government spent that it doesn't have -- the future.
hasnt Germany pledged like 600M or something crazy like that? Also, will there be any agencies tracking who pledged what and how much they actually come through on? I hope there's no governments out there grandstanding about giving and then end up cutting it back once the media moves on.
This thread is getting outragous. I can't believe some people feel that hundreds of thousands people dead by one natural disaster (yes, including some americans) isn't worthy of flying the US flag at half mast. That makes me sick. Just because its OUR flag doesn't mean that we can't use it to show remorse for other human beings.
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