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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Motorcycle Online has posted their open bike shootout. Can somebeody with a subscription post the article???

When you see flashing lights...drop two and go!
 

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To hell with a subscription /images/icons/laugh.gif! Here it is! Free!!!

Torrance, California March 25, 2002 --

Tanked up, loaded for bear, we're off to see the wizard, etc.

It's not all fun and games. Most of it is, but not all of it. Getting all the Open-class bikes together for a ride, even though we're leaving the Kawasaki ZX-9R behind, has been like one of those dreams where you're running as fast as you can, but not really moving. At the big magazines, one phone call generally results in your bike of choice appearing on the doorstep in a matter of minutes, but we Internet upstarts are still the red-headed step-chillun of the industry. It takes a couple of phone calls and a certain amount of pleading. I think that's bound to change. In the meantime, I'll adjust.

The ZX-9R is being left out, one, because Kawasaki won't have one ready for us for another couple of days, and two, because I already rode and wrote about one a couple of months ago, at Motorcyclist, and the ZX-9 isn't going to win in this company. Not that it isn't a great bike--even better for '02 with recalibrated suspension, new carburetors, etc. If you value a comfortable superbike for street sorties, or sport-touring with significant other, and don't necessarily require the latest in LED tail lights and things, the ZX is a great deal at its (reduced) price of $9,499.(And we have an upgrade or two in mind for it that should put it right in the horsepower hunt with its liter-class brothers. Stay tuned.)

In the meantime, we're all legal, insured, wearing clean(ish) undies, and headed for a blast in the great California outback to settle this thing yet again for '02. Hasn't been long, kiddies, since the Open class consisted of Suzuki Katana 1100s, Honda CBR1000Fs, Yamaha FJ1100s and ZX-11s. (I lost the shift lever on my Katana somewhere before Taft, but made it all the way home anyway, easily, in fifth.) How times change. How old am I again? Don't tell me, I don't want to know. All that remains constant is the roads, and the thrill of being a rat escaped from the race if only for a day or two.

That's what I try to explain to non-motorcycling acquaintances who can only focus on the danger of motorcycles (which I've almost forgotten about, really): the beauty of getting out into wide open spaces that 95% of the Interstate-traveling public will never see except in a National Geographic documentary. Peeling off the Aerostich for a dip in a mountain stream, stopping for a burger in a diner straight out of a movie. That's what I like about the bikes, and they don't really have to be Open-class monsters. When they do happen to be, well, it's even more special, isn't it? The thrill of victory, the agony of defeat--every few hundred yards.

Did I start out to make a point? Right, my prediction for eventual overall Winnah of this thing, is the Honda. I been riding it and the R1 every day for the last couple of weeks, and the Honda feels lighter, smoother, smaller--if maybe a tick slower. Last year, MO picked the R1 even though it was at a distinct power disadvantage compared to the Suzuki. What a state of affairs we've reached when we say, Enough is enough. We'll see how it all shakes out.

-- JB

Last week, had the question of which bike I like best come up, I'd have pledged my love to the Honda. So light, good suspenders, brakes, plenty o' motor, and it fits me the best of all three. Then I rode the Yamaha this weekend and was impressed by just how good the new bike is. And then there's the Suzuki which has the power to thrill, but my mind reminds me that it didn't fit me too well. But my mind made me believe my ex-girlfriend loved me once, too, so I wouldn't put too much weight on that synapse.

Tale of the tape? Naah. It'll be the tale of the tail for me--which bike fits me best and allows me to enjoy riding the most, whether it be track days or crossing state lines and mountain ranges. So, going into it, my heart's with the Honda.

-- B. "Minime" Avis

I don't like repeating what everyone else has already stated so I'll keep this brief. The Yamaha and Honda are both so good that frankly, I don't really care which one I ride. However, if I had to pick, I'd have to go with the Yamaha by a nose. It fits me just a little better than the 954. Granted the Suzuki is really fast, but it's just not as fun on the mountain twisties as the other two. Anyway, that's why we do these things, so that after all is done, we'll have some concrete answers instead of these, "I think," "perhaps it does," and my personal favorite, "I don't know," types of global genericisms.

--C. "Hackfu" Kim

Here I am after a long trip down the 101 and other city type freeways I arrive at the spacious MO headquarters to represent the everyman, the simple man the guy that is not fast as hell. The last time I rode the new big bore bikes was a few years ago now, when the TL and Superhawk were the hot new things in town. So I am excited to see what these new beasts will feel like. I really have nothing to compare them to so it will be interesting to see what I like and why. The years of hype surrounding each of these famous models read so carefully in all the glossy ragazines will come to life right below my ass. The ass of everyman and anyman!

-- J R Hatch

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Yamaha YZF-R1 Max Power = 138.9 hp @ 11,200 rpm
Max Torque = 75.7 lb-ft @ 8,300 rpm

Honda CBR954RR Max Power = 130.8 hp @ 11,500 rpm
Max Torque = 68.7 lb-ft @ 8,000 rpm

Suzuki GSX-R1000 Max Power = 147.5 hp @ 10,800 rpm
Max Torque = 78.0 ft/lbs @ 8,200 rpm
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
That's it?! I've heard that MO sucks, but now I know that for a fact. What kind if hillbilly, white trash article is that suppose to be. I wonder if these guys actually rode the bikes. They probalby went to a couple dealers and sat on each one and then wrote this "article". LAME!

When you see flashing lights...drop two and go!
 

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/images/icons/laugh.gif Would you say the same thing if they voted for the Honda? I have to admit, those power numbers are suspect, but if they are accurate, I want to know what Honda isn't telling us. So far, I've heard the 954 has no problem keeping up with the Gixxer or R1.
 

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It's only their preliminary write-up, or part 1 if you like. Within the next few days they'll probably post the real one.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Absolutely! There is nothing to this "article", no substance. I happen to agree that the R1 and 954 are within a nats ass of each other, and the Gxxr, well it's a Shitzuki. I just can't believe they expect people to pay for that crap.

Ride Red!!!!

When you see flashing lights...drop two and go!
 

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Let's see what the Almight "Serpents" can do about this:/images/icons/smile.gif Full-Force?
Yamaha YZF-R1 Max Power = 138.9 hp @ 11,200 rpm
Max Torque = 75.7 lb-ft @ 8,300 rpm

Honda CBR954RR Max Power = 130.8 hp @ 11,500 rpm
Max Torque = 68.7 lb-ft @ 8,000 rpm



 

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Boy these Honda guys are sure quick to post and brag when something good is said about them(cuz they have been for 2 weeks now), but when it goes the other way, everyones like "B.S"., "no way", "I bet they didn't even ride them". That's funny! But on a real note, I don't believe a word those guys at MO say. Their reviews are usually way off from everybody elses.

Let other people be right sometimes...it soothes them for being nothing else!
 

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OK, here it is with no SPIN. MO says they have a R1 that makes right at 139hp to the wheel? That sombitchin bike is making 160hp at the motor and you know as well as I do that it aint so Im calling MO a bunch of idots. As for the 954 only making 130, Im calling that bullchit also. Someone help me out here because I cant rememeber if it was Cycle World, Sport Rider, or Motorcyclist, but one of these REAL mags had the 954 at over 136hp and over 70tq to the wheel. That comes to about 156 at the motor. Honda claims 154 at the motor so that is about right. Yamaha is claiming 152 hp I believe. MO says right at 139 to the rear wheel. That is 160hp at the motor. You know as well as I do that it aint making 160 at the motor so I am going to say MO is full of CHIT! But thats just par for the course for them. I mean the Gixxer 1000 still fell to the R1 in their last test. Give me a break. Too much power to use? BULLCHIT. Give the Suzuki its props. It kicked the 929 and the R1's ass mightily last year. MO likes Yamaha's. You know who HACK FU is? He refuses to rank a Honda over a Yamaha period. Let me close by saying thatif you took the new R1 and the 954 and both were properly broke in and all of the variables were removed the R1 would probably make 1-2 more hp than the 954, although 2 is pushing it. The 954 is still going to outrun it in the high revs because the 954 is tuned more for top end power. The 929 outran the R1 on top end and Im sure the 954 will also. 1/4 mile performance for last year the 929 had the advantage in nearly every test against the R1. This year I dont look for that to change either.
Almost forgot about the Serpents. I am looking for the 954 to "tickle" the 150hp mark with the Serpents.
http://webpages.charter.net/fullforce
 

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Full force, you think MO is getting a certain number on the dyno, and then writing a LOWER or HIGHER number in the review? Why would they do that???? There's no reason for them to do that. All that matters with dyno charts is looking at the curves. Those should be the same on any dyno, although the numbers will vary. [censored], they're GSXR makes 147 hp stock. That's a big number for the suzuki, so maybe their dyno makes numbers bigger, who knows.

Bottom line, I can see someone disagreeing with a magazine or website about their subjective evaluation of a bike, since all reviews are subjective. The only thing we can't bitch about in these reviews are the numbers, the data. But to say they're purposefully putting in wrong numbers is just silly. What is their motivation? What is your evidence? Different numbers on different dynos? Hello! That's how that [censored] works. Different dynos produce different numbers. But I see in your comment about how one "real" magazine gave numbers to your satisfaction, so I see your criteria. As long as the numbers agree with what you think they should be, they're legit. If they don't, they're being dishonestly altered. Is that about right? Listen to youself! Snap out of it man, cmon.

btw, that post was not meant to flame you or anything of that nature, I just think your accusation is ridiculous.
 

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proof is in the pudding ... look at MO's past test .. they hate to say anything good about honda's .. and you can manipulate dyno like women... leave the fan off on one bike so it suffers heat soke, make a dyno pull on one bike at a much cooler temp, chain slack and lubing,synthetic in one bike or the other, list goes on and on ... i dont just agree with mags that give results that i like ... hell, think about it, like you said you cant argue with the numbers ... yamaha made 139hp at the wheel, lets assume that is correct, well how much power do you think it takes at the motor to do that? 136 for the honda is backed up by honda's claim but 139 for the yamaha is far greater than what even yamaha claims ... dont dispute the numbers like you said...

http://webpages.charter.net/fullforce
 

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Dude, I think MO sucks just as much as you probably do, but that's mainly because I never agree with their reasoning regarding the outcomes of the comparos. I mean, they're last liter bike shootout was a joke, but what do you mean they hate to say good things about a Honda? Two out of four staffers said they're picking it as the odds-on favorite going into the shootout! And I think they're review of the 954 was pretty positive, as it's been for all the bikes. I mean, when was the last time they bagged on any bike, Honda or otherwise? I don't think they're corrupt, i just think all the bikes these days are pretty damn good.

As far as their numbers go, wait till the magazines print their dyno numbers and compare. The ones from MO are the only one's I've seen so far, so until we see numbers from another source it's a bit difficult to call them "false" just yet. Hold your horses :)
 

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FullForce...I'm surprised. I thought you would be pleased by the article since the 954 appears to be the odds on favorite. The numbers might be suspect, but none of the reviews have complained about the 954's power so who cares what the numbers are.
 

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Ask yourself this people...Do you need the magazines to pick your bike so you feel more secure about the bike you bought? If you do, sell it cuz you're a poser/images/icons/laugh.gif!!!

Let other people be right sometimes...it soothes them for being nothing else!
 

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And it seems you are way to hung up on manufacturer claims. Just because they give a horsepower number or dry weight doesn't mean it's right. Yamaha could very well have underrated their engine just so it appears they aren't coming after the Gixxer. From not only this dyno but another one I've seen they are both in the high 130's. One was MO the other was a customer bike.

Is anyone here into F-bodies? When the LS1 came out they were rating them at 305 crank hp... Now customers started to dyno their cars and a good portion of them were at 290-300rwhp, that kinda means to me that they underrated the engine for whatever reason. My gut is they did it so the space between the C5 and F-bodies seems enough to warrant the extra price, when in reality from an engine standpoint they are near identical.

See what I'm saying, and a 954 owner has weighed his bike recently and it weighed with a full Hindle exhaust exactly what a bonestock Gixxer1000 weighed on the same day on the same scale... Does it sound to you like Honda fibbed a bit on the dry weight of the blade?

Yamaha might have not changed a thing with the engine, but it has been reported that they adjusted the power delivery and it's peak horsepower has moved up the rev range, or more correctly, the engine just doesn't drop off like the last generation. That could mean the 954 is not going to take off on it in the upper range. Not too mention we all know the R1's engine can easily produce a buttload more power, lets say the forward facing airbox could have helped on a dyno. My airbox is facing rearward, so in a dyno situation it's sucking air from a deadstopped position from the back of the engine. There's certainly reason to think that hurts my dyno performance compared with the actual road. The new one will suck from the front of the bike and that dinky fan they use to cool it actually does help the bike. That might account for the difference, since MO already dynoed an '01 R1 at 134rwhp, that's a difference of not even 5rwhp.
 

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A measly 130HP. Honda O Honda. What are you thinking??? Those are #'s from 4 years ago.

Ride <font color=red> Red </font color=red> aiight............. <font color=blue> Suzi </font color=blue> or <font color=red> Yammy </font color=red>

Take it to the streets.
 

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i think you guys are all crazy. i love my 929 i'll never be able to use all that HP on the street so who cares what the mags say.
 

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there are internal modifications. they changed the pistons and something else. its on the site.yammi that is.


here it is

Completely new, ultra-sleek bodywork features a sharper front profile and headlight; more compact fuel tank; engine-revealing side cowlings; and restyled seat and ultra-sleek tailsection.
Compact, ultra-lightweight 998cc, DOHC, 20-valve, liquid-cooled, in-line four-cylinder engine features significant intake, exhaust and internal retooling to enhance low- and mid-range torque and boost top-end power!
All-new, competition-bred suction-piston type fuel injection - the first ever such system used on a production motorcycle - features shorter intake ports and a special vacuum-controlled intake system to ensure optimum low-rpm air volume and thus smoother, stronger, more linear power across the rpm range.
The fuel injection's lightweight Electronic Control Unit (ECU) adjusts injection period and timing via intake air temperature/pressure, atmospheric pressure, coolant temperature, crankshaft position, and rpm and throttle position sensors.
All-new, forward-facing airbox routes cooler, fresher air engine-ward as speeds increase, delivering greater high-rpm output.
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All-new, higher silicon-content cylinder sleeves ensure greater heat dissipation (and reduced oil consumption) for consistent power delivery and reduced frictional power loss.
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Lightweight forged pistons feature carburized connecting rods with stronger, new-design fastening bolts for greater high-rpm durability.
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4-into-2-into-1 exhaust with titanium muffler features reshaped, lighter-weight titanium header pipes for enhanced low- to mid-range torque and top-end power.
All-new, higher-efficiency radiator and ring-style cooling fan produces 20% more airflow.
Yamaha's patented Exhaust Ultimate Power (EXUP) valve, redesigned with two shafts and dual butterfly valves to be smaller and lighter, adjusts exhaust flow for maximum torque.
Increased oil capacity and larger oil cooler provide 20% better performance, while bigger sightglass ensures easy oil level inspection.
All-new direct ignition coils, iridium spark plugs and higher-output magneto delivers hotter, more reliable firing.
All-new aluminum Deltabox III frame, finished in gorgeous R7-spec black, boasts greater rigidity with reduced weight, a 600cc-class 54.9" wheelbase, and uses the engine as a fully stressed member for industry-leading handling.
Solid-mounted engine has been raised 20mm inside new frame, centralizing rider/machine mass for quicker cornering transitions.
All-new, fully detachable aluminum subframe means easier rear shock access.
Extra-long (22.9") swingarm features all-new asymmetrical design to accommodate retooled EXUP valve and muffler, as well as higher pivot axis and slant angle to match repositioned engine mounting.
Redesigned inverted telescopic front fork features 4.7" of travel and more rigid, larger-diameter 43mm tubes with higher-rate springs and a wider range of damping adjustability for sharper, more responsive cornering performance.
Revised front-end geometry features reduced fork offset and increased trail for more linear response during cornering.
All-new, one-piece hollow forged aluminum clip-ons and a lighter-weight steering shaft pipe deliver enhanced balance and feel.
40mm piggyback rear shock with 5.1" of travel features higher spring rates, a wider range of full adjustability and a lighter-weight aluminum preload adjuster cam to ensure exceptional rear wheel tracking and handling performance.
Dual 298mm front disc brakes feature new gold-anodized, 4-piston calipers with all-new aluminum pistons and sintered brake pads for stronger, one-finger stopping power.
Rear brake set-up features lighter-weight, smaller-diameter 220mm disc with all-new 2-piston pin-slide-type caliper.
All-new LED taillight is lighter-weight and significantly brighter, while boasting a sleek, single-piece curved design.
All-new speedometer console with newly adjustable LCD illumination features multi-function digital (odometer, dual tripmeters, water temperature) and analog (tachometer) gauges and indicator lights.
Instrumentation also features all-new shift indicator light, adjustable for pre-selected rpm levels to suit different riding styles or roads.
Overall weight reduced thanks to lighter-weight wheels, drive sprocket cover, drive chain and front fender.
Additional Features:
 

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ClovaR1, don't start over here. I won't tolerate you starting flame wars. You may be able to get away with it in the Yamaha board or Suzuki board, but not here. This is for discussion, not trolling.

 
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