[shamar1]

i mentioned this before for maybe just monza...? but after his somewhat poor valencia showing for a guy of his caliber (former world champion) on a bike of honda's caliber (the sp-2) i think they may have been a bit premature and "overzealous" in adopting the single system for EVERY round.

while that very well may work for nicky and miguel on our AMA tracks here in the states, the european circuits certainly favor the higher speeds. and given the HP increase ducati's achieved with the shorter stroke 999 spec motors, it makes me wonder if tuxworth may be asleep at the wheel...!?!?! come on neil, you gotta think about what your doing. remember, the first shakedown year of the mille with peter goddard...? the RSV was running a single pipe in '99, then whitveen later adopted the duals 'cause the bike wasn't competitive with the stock single system.

how is it that some poor "schlub" of a former engineer from new jersey (like myself) can do the math on this based solely on keen observation... and a guy of his clearly seasoned caliber seemingly doesn't...??? if they don't want to take the time to swap out systems, i suggest they keep a secondary bike fitted with duals at all times. just like they do with a bike sporting "rains". man, somebody needs to make me a crew chief...!!! LOL

for reference... i noticed, the display bikes of roberts and duhamel under the daytona tent for American honda, still retain the dual systems...

http://esport.sportbikes.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Honda&Number=14892&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5

 

[WinkoR1]

I'd hate to see this current set up go because I love it even though it may not be that good for racing

 

[shamar1]

well i hope the Japanese don't "screw the American" edwards with more of their "face saving" like suzuki (imo) did to roberts. history has shown that they are good ones for not wanting to openly acknowledge their mistakes. not that i'm an expert or anything on Sino traditions... but in their culture, to switch back, would in essence mean them having to do just that.

 

[bitTRL1000]

I think your criticism of the single pipe system based on his valencia performance is premature, but then again, when have we ever agreed? Edwards has never been good at valencia. Even his 3rd and 4th place finishes this year were better than his finishes last year. That suggests improvement, not relegation.

bitTRL1000
Midwest CCS #918

 

[shamar1]

well i'm gonna keep my eyes peeled here leading up to monza. you do have a point regarding his placing VS. last year. monza is round 5 and just around the corner more or less the weekend of may 12th. if hockenhiem were still on the circuit this year, i'd almost be willing to bet money. but then again, these are the Japanese i'm dealing with. on second thought, i think i'll just hold on to my money. LOL

 

[F6rocks]

Edwards and the whole Castrol\Honda team put the equip that works best on the bike, I have no idea who makes the final decision, but you can bet it`s always based on performance gains...... I seen Corser using single and duals last year, same with Edwards..

 

[shamar1]

um F6, regarding corser... what round was that...? i don't recall them ever switching up for either troy, regis, or alessandro. i don't miss a "trick", nuance, nor a race...

careful now... this is S1 you're chattin' with here... others will tell ya, contending stuff like that in a casual discussion with me is akin to "playin' with fire"... LOL seriously though, let me know. i want to look for that.

 

[bitTRL1000]

shamar, Although I disagree about predicting that Honda will go back to 2 cans, I do agree with you that switching to 1 can seems to be counter-productive, at least in top-end horsepower terms.

bitTRL1000
Midwest CCS #918

 

[F6rocks]

S1, Last season!! not quite sure which round, still waiting for last seasons tape.. Castrol\Honda team did as well.
Wouldn`t jive you bro. The reason I watch for that stuff is to gather info for the SBK board game.. And what system
where Hayden and DuHammel running? I believe they actually ran singles..

 

[shamar1]

yup, the AMA boys are full tilt with the single system also. well don't worry, i've got every round put tape with the commercials edited out and crash scene's instant replayed and slow-mo'd with the my replay/tivo box. i'll start reviewing 'em as time permits... i had already rewatched a few of the '01 rounds looking for chili concussion accidents regarding a thread a month or two back.

http://esport.sportbikes.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Honda&Number=14892&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5

http://esport.sportbikes.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showflat.pl?Cat=&Board=Honda&Number=14391&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5

 

[DUC748]

I don't recall seeing Aprilia go with a single can last year either. I too have the tapes but I think I'll let Shamar go through his since they don't have commercials to fast forward through. LOL /images/icons/wink.gif

 

[pastU]

what is the HP difference? and where, are you talking total HP/torque delivery?

Did not think Colin was bad at Valencia, looked like solid riding & set up to me, he was on the front row.

The Ducati riders are doing better, is that really just HP?

http://212.239.37.75/MainApp/sbkpage?id=1015721154345416
check out valencia-grid and race standings...


<font color=blue>SPEED</font color=blue><font color=red>MATTERS !</font color=red> /images/icons/wink.gif

 

[shamar1]

yup, it's just HP... the bike is still essentially the 916 of yore (said "tongue in cheek" of course). when the 998r/999 debuted last year (and before the server crash), i predicted in a post over in the ducati forum, from the dimensional calculations, that the bike would be good for an additional 5-10 hp. and that's just what reports indicate they've achieved.

 

[pastU]

Re: i predict edwards will return to duals, and SO

why then is there such small difference in superpole times and finish race time, including top speed? regulary there can be ten riders within one second, and over the course of a race, at the finish a difference of only 1-1.5 seconds, that is less than 0.02 sec per lap.



<font color=blue>SPEED</font color=blue><font color=red>MATTERS !</font color=red> /images/icons/wink.gif

 

[shamar1]

Re: i predict edwards will return to duals, and SO

well unfortunately, when it comes to hp and motorcycles... MORE is not always a good thing. not that it's "bad"... it's just that with the lack of downforce being generated it's difficult to really do anything with it besides have the rear wheel spin 10-15mph faster than the front.

but of course, as kawi and suzuki know, it's also one of things better to "have and not need"... than "need and not have"... superpole times areen't really telling for there only out on the track for so few laps. and that's so long as something doesn't happen to cut in to the time available. the clock continues to tick away irregardless of what's happening. so yeah, it's over the 20-30 laps of race distance.

and yup, that extra 5-10hp is only going to be marked in seconds and fractions of a second. it's a common misconception to think that it would achieve more... but NO... it is what it is... but hey it's still enough to snag you a win when you're side by side, bangin' elbows crossing the stripe. a win is a win. when it's all said and done, trust me... nobody's caring if it were .02 seconds or 2 minutes. there too busy poppin' tops on champagne bottles and hosin' down the "umbrella poon" they're goin' to nail later on that night. LOL

to clarify, at the speeds where the extra 5-10 hp is coming on line... it's being SERIOUSLY negated by the exponentially increasing drag numbers present. that's why once you're up around the 185-195 mph area... it takes a corresponding exponential increase in HP of like 50-100 more ponies to get past 200, not some paltry 5-10...

 

[pastU]

Re: i predict edwards will return to duals, and SO

I guess what I was really getting at had more to do with transport phenomena than purely HP, mainly because of the original 1 vs. 2 can theory. ????? /images/icons/smile.gif

<font color=blue>SPEED</font color=blue><font color=red>MATTERS !</font color=red> /images/icons/wink.gif