[tmleadr03]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2004-12-09-guns-cover_x.htm

[ QUOTE ]
Ronald Honeycutt didn't hesitate. The Pizza Hut driver had just finished dropping off a delivery when a man holding a gun approached him. Honeycutt wasn't about to become another robbery statistic. He grabbed the 9 mm handgun he always carries in his belt and shot the man more than 10 times, killing him.

Honeycutt faced no criminal charges, because prosecutors decided that he acted in self-defense. But the 39-year-old did lose his job: Carrying a gun violated Pizza Hut's no-weapons rule.

"It's not fair," says Honeycutt of Carmel, Ind., who has found another pizza-delivery job and continues to carry a gun. "There is a constitutional right to bear arms. If I'm going to die, I'd rather be killed defending myself."

[/ QUOTE ]

While I admit that I personally think 10 rounds is a bit excessive, so is firing him for defending himself.

 

[the_journeyman]

Yes, 10 rounds is excessive, 2 would have probably been enough. I shouldn't have been fired for simply defending himself. If he had been robbed, I bet the same place that fired him for defending himself would have fired him because he didn't bring the money back ~

JM

 

[thenightangel]

point taken. He should sue for violation of constitutional rights. I'll bet crime against pizza delivery people falls there for a while.

 

[redhurricane]

[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
Yes, 10 rounds is excessive, 2 would have probably been enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If someone points a firearm at me, I will unload the weapon I carry into them completely. Sorry, that's the way it is.

Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but I am not willing to risk having the person still attempt to take my life.

 

[the_journeyman]

[ QUOTE ]
redhurricane said:
[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
Yes, 10 rounds is excessive, 2 would have probably been enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If someone points a firearm at me, I will unload the weapon I carry into them completely. Sorry, that's the way it is.

Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but I am not willing to risk having the person still attempt to take my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but it's easier to convince a jury it was justified homicide/self defense if you use just enough force to eliminate the threat. Most juries could convict with that amount of deadly force, that's what usually keeps people who shoot & kill an assailant from going to prison for some charge relate to 2nd murder or manslaughter ~

JM

 

[crenix]

I'd say shoot him twice then hide behind a car. If he gets up pop out and shoot him again :laugh:.

 

[Gruneun]

[ QUOTE ]
tmleadr03 said:
While I admit that I personally think 10 rounds is a bit excessive, so is firing him for defending himself.

[/ QUOTE ]
If the guy still had the gun and he was still moving, I'd probably keep firing, too, and ten rounds doesn't take more than a three or four seconds. Keeping your rate of fire down in a bad situation requires discipline that most people never develop.

That said, I can somewhat sympathize with Pizza Hut. If it were my company, I'd want my employees to be able to defend themselves, but I don't like the image of a gun tucked in their belt as they're delivering to Joe Average and his family. The insurance they have to carry on delivery guys would require those rules and their strict enforcement, especially in a high-profile situation. Besides, they know half a dozen businesses will offer that guy a job the day the story hits.

 

[vegaseric]

The delivery guy knowingly risked getting fired by carrying his piece. That being said, he rightfully defended his right to carry pizzas and not get his ass shot off. I'm sure this incident wont f*ck up his resume, he should be able to get on with Dominos or Little Caasars with no problem.

 

[the_journeyman]

[ QUOTE ]
vegaseric said:
The delivery guy knowingly risked getting fired by carrying his piece. That being said, he rightfully defended his right to carry pizzas and not get his ass shot off. I'm sure this incident wont f*ck up his resume, he should be able to get on with Dominos or Little Caasars with no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would only be true of Pizza Hut specifically stated that firearms were not to be carried by deliverypersons. I had a concealed carry permit and could carry if was doing something like that ~

JM

 

[Ninjaslayer]

We have one robber who won't be robbing againg though also. So that is okay by me......

I grew up in a small town in Michigan. Our chief was a retired cop from Detroit. A couple of thugs decided to rob one of 2 only liqour stores in our town. Well the Chief sees this goes down. Chases them down. They wreck and the Chief kills both, I think he put like 4 or 5 rounds into one, and another 4 or 5 into the other one. Both expired and did not any longer rob any stores...... :waytogo:

 

[PorradaVFR]

As much I applaud the guy defending himself, Pizza Hut (presumably) has a clear policy and followed it. It's a shame, but in this day and age companies HAVE to prevent their employees from doing anything risky. I mean, Domino's got sued for car crashes from delivery drivers running red lights and lost a fortune. You cannot control what employee X will do if they carry a weapon and use it inappropriately, so NOBODY can carry a weapon.

That said, I'm sure the guy preferred losing his job to his life.

 

[Ninjaslayer]

Exactly Porrada.....

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6........ :waytogo:

 

[scotteq]

Somebody shoot me..... I have to actually admit in public that I agree with Porrada... :wink:


Let's say we remove the shooting from the equation entirely, and say that his boss noticed the weapon in the course of a normal workday. That's against company policy, and is cause for termination. He was terminated. End of story. The employer has the right to make that a condition of employment.

Hell, The Act of Sex is a priveledge and a right enjoyed by millions. But if/when bend the secratary over your desk and get caught, you should not act surprised and outraged when you get your pink slip.

Scott :smile:

 

[the_journeyman]

[ QUOTE ]
Ninjaslayer said:
Exactly Porrada.....

Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6........ :waytogo:

[/ QUOTE ]

I wasn't trying to dimminish his self defense ~ I'm glad he protected himself, I would have fired a couple rounds myself ~

JM

 

[evander]

[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
[ QUOTE ]
redhurricane said:
[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
Yes, 10 rounds is excessive, 2 would have probably been enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If someone points a firearm at me, I will unload the weapon I carry into them completely. Sorry, that's the way it is.

Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but I am not willing to risk having the person still attempt to take my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

Right, but it's easier to convince a jury it was justified homicide/self defense if you use just enough force to eliminate the threat. Most juries could convict with that amount of deadly force, that's what usually keeps people who shoot & kill an assailant from going to prison for some charge relate to 2nd murder or manslaughter ~

JM

[/ QUOTE ]

I talked to a lawyer who has defended a number of self defense cases. He said it’s easier to make a self defense case if the victim fire all rounds. If the victim has the restraint to “only” fire as many rounds as needed to kill the assailant they have options other than the use deadly force. If you’re in such a panicked situation, and have had no formal firearms training, you keep pulling the trigger until empty. At least that’s what the lawyer said. So take it for what it’s worth.

 

[the_journeyman]

I guess that makes sense, I've had firearm training, and am used to using one. Probably someone that isn't used to using one would be better off doing that. Guess it depends on where and whatever. I'm just glad he took up for himself ~

JM

 

[MyKa]

Lucky he didn't do that in Florida, we have 10-20- life crap and they love pushing it on self-defense cases.

Thats one serious pizza dude!

 

[novos]

[ QUOTE ]
scotteq said:
Somebody shoot me..... I have to actually admit in public that I agree with Porrada... :wink

[/ QUOTE ]


let me order a pizza and I'll shoot you TEN times! :laugh:

 

[vegaseric]

[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
[ QUOTE ]
vegaseric said:
The delivery guy knowingly risked getting fired by carrying his piece. That being said, he rightfully defended his right to carry pizzas and not get his ass shot off. I'm sure this incident wont f*ck up his resume, he should be able to get on with Dominos or Little Caasars with no problem.

[/ QUOTE ]

That would only be true of Pizza Hut specifically stated that firearms were not to be carried by deliverypersons. I had a concealed carry permit and could carry if was doing something like that ~

JM

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, you could legally carry a firearm according to your CCW. But your employer can prohibit you from carrying on your job.
From the article:
"Honeycutt faced no criminal charges, because prosecutors decided that he acted in self-defense. But the 39-year-old did lose his job: Carrying a gun violated Pizza Hut's no-weapons rule."

An ignorant quote from the article:
"Do you want your mail guy or delivery guy carrying a loaded gun when he comes to the door?" asks Patty Sullivan, a Pizza Hut spokeswoman. "What if he's not happy with his tip?" :rolling:

 

[flankr7]

[ QUOTE ]
redhurricane said:
[ QUOTE ]
the_journeyman said:
Yes, 10 rounds is excessive, 2 would have probably been enough.

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree. If someone points a firearm at me, I will unload the weapon I carry into them completely. Sorry, that's the way it is.

Maybe that sounds a bit harsh, but I am not willing to risk having the person still attempt to take my life.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm with you brother. If you point a deadly weapon at me or any one I am responsible for, you are going straight to hell with a full magazine. More if you are still moving after I reload.