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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

:waytogo:Nice to see some numbers, but I'm quite happy to stick with my '03; a 1.6 hp difference is absolutely no difference--you'll see more variation than that between different examples of the same model. Order the small shake when your buddy buys the large, and you've just closed that hp gap :smirk:. Given that it's a 600, the extra midrange would be nice though.

Now, the weight difference is a little more significant, given the same rider on each bike, but, then again, you'll never go up against yourself, so you're back to which rider had the bigger lunch. The only real chunk of weight was a (modest) 3.6 pounds off the frame. A few ounces were shaved with the new swingarm, and more ounces came off the exhaust (now equipped with a catalytic converter)--which is often scrapped for a much lighter aftermarket system anyway. In other words, it wouldn't be too hard to lighten up the 1st generation RR to comparable, or better, weight #s.

The (heavier) inverted forks and radial brakes do look sweet, though, but I personally don't care for the cheesy "Racing" script decal, nor the undercut scallops on the (otherwise good looking 1000RR) tail.

All in all, given the lack of substantial impact the upgrades hold for street riders, and even club racers, I don't see any real reason for someone to part with their '03-'04 and pick up an '05. H*ll, with Honda only racing the bike in FX--which already allows for all kinds of motor, suspension, brakes, and subframe mods--I'd say the changes were primarily a market strategy to address the complaints of the "stat-pack"--i.e. too heavy compared to other 600s, no trick inverted forks/radial brakes like other 600s, etc.
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:
the 636 is probably still going to eat its lunch in the magazine shootouts :grin:

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, yeah, but what else do you expect with that "cheater" Kawi? :wink:
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Honda wouldn't spend all the time and money and go through all that trouble just to improve some "stats". IMO it seemed like most reviews picked the 600RR as one of the, if not the, best 600 already. I'm glad Honda didn't sit still and decided to improve their product by adding to the midrange and topend, adding USD forks with radial mounted brakes, all while trimming down the weight too...oh my what horrible things to do. Honda didn't make these changes hoping owners of a 1 or 2 year old bike would trade 'em in for a tweaked model, but Hondas smart enough not to stand still in the 600 class.

You say the 1.6 PEAK hp improvement "is absolutely no difference"...so when does it become a difference...1.9, 2.4, 3.2, 4.1, 5.3? Those are the kinds of gains people see from doing little mods themselves. I highly doubt you can feel the difference between a 520 chain and a 525 chain, but you did make the upgrade. And BTW, who eats 9lb lunches? :grin:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

I'm with you this time South! :waytogo: I'll stay with my 04 for now.
The forks are sweet but not worth the loss on a trade-in and I love my sweet blue paint :waytogo:
As far as Kawi goes I'll take a ZX10 but no 636 :808876-nono:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Hey, I'm not looking to get into a brawl over any of this--h*ll I'm a Honda guy, and I think the 600RR is a great bike. I was merely looking at it from my perspective as a 1st gen 600RR owner; when it comes right down to it, not including a $2000 or thereabouts track "beater", I personally refuse to buy a used sportbike, so I'd probably buy an '05 RR if it was new bike time. I just think maybe you misinterpreted/misunderstood some of my remarks:

[ QUOTE ]
ENP83 said:
Honda wouldn't spend all the time and money and go through all that trouble just to improve some "stats".

[/ QUOTE ]

I didn't say that exactly. What I said was that Honda tweaked the bike to make it more marketable to motorcycle journalists and a buying public who place considerable importance on bells and whistles and minute performance # differences which have little or no bearing on real-world functionality or, in this case, in (nonexistent) sanctioned competition. And I don't have a problem with that--obviously, manufacturers invest time and money in their products in order to (better) sell them--but, as I stated, it's not an incentive for me personally to buy one.

I agree with you completely that part of Honda's concern is to keep pace with the other manufacturers, so just like Kawasaki and Yamaha offering underseat exhausts, Honda ponies up inverted forks and radial brakes. My point is that the mods were made for marketing reasons, since Honda only races the 600RR in FX, which would allow many of the mods anyway. It'd be different if Honda fielded a Supersport effort where they needed to include the mods on the production bike in order to have them on the race bike. (Granted, the World Supersport boys will benefit some, but 1, Honda doesn't field a factory effort in WSS, and 2, Ten Kate has been spanking the field big time already, so no desperate need for upgrade there either.


[ QUOTE ]
IMO it seemed like most reviews picked the 600RR as one of the, if not the, best 600 already. I'm glad Honda didn't sit still and decided to improve their product by adding to the midrange and topend, adding USD forks with radial mounted brakes, all while trimming down the weight too...oh my what horrible things to do. Honda didn't make these changes hoping owners of a 1 or 2 year old bike would trade 'em in for a tweaked model, but Hondas smart enough not to stand still in the 600 class.

[/ QUOTE ]

This all comes under the header of "marketing" as well, and, as I said, generally speaking, I don't have a problem with that. And, you're absolutely right, it's nice to see that Honda isn't asleep at the wheel...but, the ever-increasing pace of model "updates" ties in strongly with a marketing strategy--owning the "latest and greatest"--more so than "necessary" or substantial competitive evolutionary changes--especially in the case of the 600RR which has virtually no "nearly stock" racing presence.

[ QUOTE ]
You say the 1.6 PEAK hp improvement "is absolutely no difference"...so when does it become a difference...1.9, 2.4, 3.2, 4.1, 5.3?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd say that somewhere in the 5+ hp range is something to pay attention to--as I said, more than what you'd expect to see in hp variations between the same year/model units and/or something that may not be readily matched with an aftermarket exhaust and Power Commander on the previous model.

[ QUOTE ]
I highly doubt you can feel the difference between a 520 chain and a 525 chain, but you did make the upgrade.

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, you'll just have to take my word on this one (or just put me down as talking out of my *ss :wink:), but I can feel the difference between the stock 525 set-up and the 3+ pounds less rotating drive-line mass of the 520 set-up on my 600.

[ QUOTE ]
And BTW, who eats 9lb lunches? :grin:

[/ QUOTE ]

Well, don't look at me, I usually skip lunch :laugh:. Actually, I wasn't claiming you could make up for the 9 pounds total weight difference--just the 1.6 hp difference.

Anyway, like I opened my original post, thanks for posting up the info and link. D*mn Honda forum ain't exactly the liveliest, so now we've got something to talk about. :waytogo:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Really... you'd probably see a similar HP difference between two "identical" 2004 babyblades. Especially if they were dynoed at different times (possible temp/humidity changes).

The shown 1.6HP isn't enough to say that the new 2005 is more powerful than the 2004. The 9lbs, however, is a big slab of aluminium.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Yeah the avg street rider probably wouldn't feel a 9 to 11 pound weight loss combined with a slightly beefed up midrange and topend, but trimming 1% off your chains width...now that they'll feel everytime. :smirk:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Honda is a victim of the "stat buyer," clearly, as is Kawasaki.

When the 600RR was released, they said they tested USD forks and radial brakes and didn't need them. Now that every 600 has them, they have to keep up with the stat war and add them.

Same with Kawi. They say the new underseat exhaust doesn't improve aerodynamics much and is heavier than the unit it replaced, so why add it? To compete with honda, basically, in the "looks cool" department.

As an ex-owner of an RR, I wish they'd gone the Kawi route and made it more comfy and rational, like the Kawasaki and the Yamaha, but i guess their marketing department demands a brick seat these days for that "racing bike" feel. :rolling:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:

As an ex-owner of an RR, I wish they'd gone the Kawi route and made it more comfy and rational, like the Kawasaki and the Yamaha, but i guess their marketing department demands a brick seat these days for that "racing bike" feel. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

I love my seat!
I'd rather sit half my a$$ on a brick seat than my whole A$$ on a "comfy" one :rolling: :808875-bs: You want comfy buy a F4i or a VFR800 :waytogo:
Again they will have to make a much better 600 before I replace my CBR600RR! :808922-fiddy:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:
As an ex-owner of an RR, I wish they'd gone the Kawi route and made it more comfy and rational, like the Kawasaki and the Yamaha, but i guess their marketing department demands a brick seat these days for that "racing bike" feel. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

I cant fit on a Kawi 600cc bike (besides the 05' ZZR, and I havent sat on a 05' ninja) they were all to small. And small just because of my height, not weight (I aint fat).
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
CBR600RRider01 said:
[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:

As an ex-owner of an RR, I wish they'd gone the Kawi route and made it more comfy and rational, like the Kawasaki and the Yamaha, but i guess their marketing department demands a brick seat these days for that "racing bike" feel. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

I love my seat!
I'd rather sit half my a$$ on a brick seat than my whole A$$ on a "comfy" one :rolling: :808875-bs: You want comfy buy a F4i or a VFR800 :waytogo:
Again they will have to make a much better 600 before I replace my CBR600RR! :808922-fiddy:

[/ QUOTE ]

Whatever. There's no reason to put a racebike seat on a streetbike, no matter how hardcore the bike is. Especially when more comfortable options available. The Yamaha is 1000 times more comfy and by most measures is just as fast, if not faster, at the track than the 600RR according to magazine testers. So the seat and ergos are mainly for marketing reasons, not real-world functionality. They don't make the bike any better, just less comfortable, and for a streetbike that's just silly. I'm glad to see Kawasaki, in revamping it's 636, has made it more comfortable while upping performance at the same time. Honda should take note and return the CBR 600 to its roots as a great all-around bike that's awesome at the track.
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:
[ QUOTE ]
CBR600RRider01 said:
[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:

As an ex-owner of an RR, I wish they'd gone the Kawi route and made it more comfy and rational, like the Kawasaki and the Yamaha, but i guess their marketing department demands a brick seat these days for that "racing bike" feel. :rolling:

[/ QUOTE ]

I love my seat!
I'd rather sit half my a$$ on a brick seat than my whole A$$ on a "comfy" one :rolling: :808875-bs: You want comfy buy a F4i or a VFR800 :waytogo:
Again they will have to make a much better 600 before I replace my CBR600RR! :808922-fiddy:

[/ QUOTE ]

Honda should take note and return the CBR 600 to its roots as a great all-around bike that's awesome at the track.

[/ QUOTE ]


They do, its called an F4i :lol:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
ENP83 said:
Yeah the avg street rider probably wouldn't feel a 9 to 11 pound weight loss combined with a slightly beefed up midrange and topend, but trimming 1% off your chains width...now that they'll feel everytime. :smirk:

[/ QUOTE ]

"9 to 11"? The number is "9"--not that anybody is obsessing over stats :wink:, but if you're gonna start stretching the truth in support of your point...

And, in my original post, I *did* say the additional midrange would be nice. :waytogo:

BTW--it's not 1% percent off the width of the chain; as I said, it's just over 3 pounds of rotating mass off the driveline--the DID VM520 chain is a tad over 1 pound lighter, and the rest comes off with the AFAM drilled steel front sprocket and hardened aluminum rear sprocket. And just like a lightened flywheel is noticeable in a car due to the decreased rotating mass, so it is with the lighter chain and sprockets--better throttle response and freer revs.
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
JoshN said:
Whatever. There's no reason to put a racebike seat on a streetbike, no matter how hardcore the bike is. Especially when more comfortable options available. The Yamaha is 1000 times more comfy and by most measures is just as fast, if not faster, at the track than the 600RR according to magazine testers. So the seat and ergos are mainly for marketing reasons, not real-world functionality. They don't make the bike any better, just less comfortable, and for a streetbike that's just silly. I'm glad to see Kawasaki, in revamping it's 636, has made it more comfortable while upping performance at the same time. Honda should take note and return the CBR 600 to its roots as a great all-around bike that's awesome at the track.

[/ QUOTE ]

Personally; I find the hondas to have the best ergonomics. Suzuki to be the most comfortable. Kawi and Yamaha, to me, are uncomfortable.

But if you want a 600 with comfort: as mentioned there's the F4i. Which could be seen in the same light as the ZX636 or the Dayton650.

But there is always a VERY fine line between comfort on a Sportbike and all-out performance.
If you want comfort and sport: get a Viffer/Sprint/FZ1/ST...
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

[ QUOTE ]
south said:
"9 to 11"? The number is "9"--not that anybody is obsessing over stats :wink:, but if you're gonna start stretching the truth in support of your point...


[/ QUOTE ]
Motorcycledaily.com "Changes include radial-mounted front brakes, a revised engine, a claimed 11 pound weight loss, a new upside-down front fork, and updated bodywork."

:applause: :waytogo:

[ QUOTE ]
south said:
the DID VM520 chain is a tad over 1 pound lighter

[/ QUOTE ]
www.didchain.com/spec

Or under 1 pound.

[ QUOTE ]
south said:
but if you're gonna start stretching the truth in support of your point...

[/ QUOTE ]
:lol: :lol: :lol:

Let's round up for you and say that "less than one pound is actually a tad over one pound" :rolling: and that you did get 3lbs off your driveline, you didn't gain it strictly by switching from a 525 to a 520 chain. You got it because you used a drilled steel front sprocket and an aluminum rear sprocket. You're trying to compare a 525 size non-drilled front sprocket and a steel rear sprocket to a 520 size drilled front sprocket and an aluminum rear sprocket. YOU're the one that said "a 1.6 hp difference is absolutely no difference"...now, how much hp do you think your chain/sprocket swap freed up? :smirk: May I suggest that next time just order the small shake instead of the large and you've just closed that hp gap.

Taking off 11 pounds, boosting the midrange and adding some power up top, that's just a marketing ploy to improve the stats boys and girls...something a street rider wouldn't notice and probably doesn't need anyway. Now switching from a 525 to a 520 chain/sprocket set up, street riders will definately notice that and need it too, especially on the street. :lol:

:bird:
 

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Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Ever drive a car with a lightened flywheel?
Even under 1 lb removed from the flywheel makes everything seem seriously peppier.

I suspect 3lbs off the chain to be a similar experience. Much more noticable than 1.6HP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Re: Dynoed \'05 CBR600RR by Sportrider

Well I'm gonna have to agree with South when he says On paper, you may get an extra .5-1 hp at the rear wheel. And since "a 1.6 hp difference is absolutely no difference" then I would have to assume that a .5-1hp difference is also absolutely no difference as well. :smirk:
 
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