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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
i recently looked into the desmodotonakhfejbef valve train.
there is no no valve springs? looks like there is a lifter and closer and a cam concoction that controls lifting and closing the valve. i would imagine this a far more accurate way of controling the position of the valve. do the valve seats wear out faster? how do u control the amount of force keeping the valve closed? does this eliminate valve float?

do you receive a higher redline with this setup?

also how is it that a 748s weighing 432lbs(dry?) with [email protected],000 better than a 365lbs(dry) r6 with [email protected]??

granted the torque is greater and flatter on a 748 but its also 60lbs heavier and 20 kabillion $ more???

i have also heard of lots of probs with this machine?

fill me in please. i know that they come with goodies like ohlins and marchesinisirnfumdk wheels.
 

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I will answer what I can....



* You don't get valve float with the desmodromic design.

* Who said the 748 (432 dry) is better than an R6?

* Ducati has had problems with reliability but I believe things are improving. My bike has treated me good.

* The only bikes that come with Ohlins are the 748R and the 998S I believe. The Marchesini wheels can be found on the 748S, 748R and all 998 models.

 

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hey duc it didnt give you mech problem couse you only have done 100 miles with it :eek:p

<font color=purple>RILLA'S</font color=purple> RULE <font color=red>hi officer how did you see me trough that smoke</font color=red>
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
nobody said it was better.

but to me r6 = 8k$ 748 = 15k$

if i was dishing out an extra 7$k i would expect more performance. obviously these are two completely diff machines. but i just dont see the hype about DUCATI. you can get better performance and reliabilty with other machines. come some one let me ride their's so i will understand ...... please pleaaaaaaase!
 

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YZR, does the Yamaha forum know your out trolling?/images/icons/wink.gif/images/icons/smile.gif You better hurry back, I am sure they are lonely without you there.

If I'm shootin at ya and ya stay still, your probably safe.
 

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A brand new 748 MSRPs at about $13K and yes that is a significant chunk of money over the R6 or any other 600cc sportbike for that matter.

Have you ever seen a Ducati Superbike on the street? What did it do for you emotionally?

 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
i think the front end is sweet as hell, butt the rear reminds me of your mo... i mean i don't like the rear. there sweet i was just looking for a reason cause i dont see it. I am looking to get sumpin a little diff for my next bike and i am examing all my options. i like the aprillia mille rsv-r but that thing weighs 430?? . alot compared to the jap rides. i've been riding dirt since i was 10 and the r6 was my first street bike. i loved it but after reading about other bikes i don't want to let ignorance of reality get in my way. i love yammi's but there are so may things out there. for only riding 6 months i consider myself being a decent rider. i am hoping to go to that california superbike school with the ninja's. the duc's sound pretty sweet. i want to drag knee. i am a big fan of squidly actions. wheelis stoppies. and all that fun stuff. but i also want to hit the track and tear it up!!!!

although i must say jumping a 80 ft table top 10-12 ft up is pretty sweet too!

back to the ducati. i am like matrix, next program......
 

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You don't like the tail of the Ducati? This is one of the most beautiful features of the bike, well that and the single sided swingarm (sexy! /images/icons/tongue.gif).

Don't worry so much about the weight of the machine; it is only at slow manuevering speeds that this works against you.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

i am a big fan of squidly actions. wheelis stoppies. and all that fun stuff.

<hr></blockquote>

Mistakes in this type of riding can get very costly. The Ducati doesn't like to wheelie for long periods of time as the oil pressure drops (correct?).

Sounds to me like you would do good to get the Honda RC-51. Less money, bigger displacement, v-twin, great sounding, no undertail exhaust, and no color choices to fret over. /images/icons/laugh.gif Still weighs 430lbs though. That's the price you pay with owning a twin.

 

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YZROOSTINYA, I have also been undecided on what bike to get next. That was until i got ins. quotes. All the jap bakes where around 3000.00 a year! The quote for a 2000 748 was 450.00 a year. In the long run it will cost me less to get the 748 and when I go hang with my friends I wont see 5 bikes that look just like mine.......anyways thats my .02.
 

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If you're talking "true" rear wheel horsepower, the Ducati 748/748s makes nearly 90. The '01 Yamaha R6, for example, makes 85-86. (My reference is http://www.factorypro.com/dyno/true1.html) As for what the '02 model makes at the wheel, I don't know, as I haven't seen the numbers out on that yet. Does it matter? Not really -- almost anybody can modify a bike to make it faster, but it all amounts to nothing unless you know how to ride said bike. And of course, being a twin, the 748 will make more torque. Enough to quantify paying $6K (or 20 kabillion, as you say) more? Prolly not, but the quality components of the bike (Marchesini rims, Showa TiN-coated forks, Brembo brakes, steel braided brake lines ... the list goes on) make it somewhat justifiable.

On the track or the twisties is probably the biggest difference. I've ridden a '99 R6 and I owned several bikes, the last being a '99 F4. The Duc is simply a better handling, more confidence-inspiring bike.

And, in my opinion, no bike comes close to the looks of the Ducati bikes, 'cept maybe the MV Augusta F4. Now, she's expensive.

Like Duc748 said, if you're looking for a bike to be stupid on, pick the cheaper one. Makes far more since to be doing that on a bike that will cost you much less to fix when you tank it trying to impress some skirt by doing a stoppie at a redlight. And besides, I'd personally consider it a favor if you kept your Yamaha and didn't ruin a Ducati simply by owning one.

 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
my r6 dynoed at 97.1hp at rear wheel before the jet kit. they are no way below 90. i dont care what dyno you are using. sorry but the boxy rear is so cheese in my opinion. and i dont like the wheel on the singled swingarm. the mv agusta rear- now that is purrrrty. and the 5 spoke splits are niiiicccce. i wish i could afford that!! but that bike is like 420? lbs too. i dont get why these supposed exotic bikes are so heavy? especially since their struttin single sided swinarms and these high performance wheels and carbon fiber.

oh and the r6 does the 1/4 in 10.86(01') and the duc 748 in 11.59(in 97') sumpin around that per motor cyclist. i know the striaghtline thing doesn't mean anything, but just pointing some things out.

i gues i would actually have to ride each machine to find out for myself.

i am leaning toward a 02 r1 or 03. i was also thinking about getting a beater bike to practice stuff and fitting it with some fur!!!! luckily i never dumped the 6 when impressing the skirts!!!:) money down the drain.

but back to the original topic. does anyone know how the valve system works and its benefits over the reg design?
 

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<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

i dont get why these supposed exotic bikes are so heavy? especially since their struttin single sided swinarms and these high performance wheels and carbon fiber

<hr></blockquote>


A single sided swingarm is heavier than that of a conventional swingarm for one. Second, the stock wheels on the Ducati (3 spoke or 5 spoke) are aluminum and while they are still considered lightweight they do not compare to those of magnesium, carbon/mag or carbon.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

oh and the r6 does the 1/4 in 10.86(01') and the duc 748 in 11.59(in 97') sumpin around that per motor cyclist. i know the striaghtline thing doesn't mean anything, but just pointing some things out.

<hr></blockquote>


This stems from how the inline 4 spins up and how the Ducati is a heavier machine.

I'm sure there are a number of Ducatisti here who can explain the valve system when compared to other systems; I don't know enough about it.

 

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The desmo valve system was invented in the 1970s (i think) because traditional valve systems were subject to floating at very high rpm levels, which of course cut into power output and reliability. i'm simplifying here, but the desmo system simply uses rocker arms to open and close the valves. it was quite a revolution when it came out, and one of the reasons ducati built a heritage for race-track driven innovation and success. today, the traditional means of driving the valve train has caught up with the desmo, and as far as i know, closed the gap in terms of high-rpm performance. ducati retains the system because of tradition, but also because it works as well or marginally better than the alternatives. they will use it on their new v4 gp bike, which will have to rev reliably up to 18,000 (?) rpms. the downside of the desmo system is that it does require more frequent adjustment than a traditional system: valves on a desmo must be checked every 6,000 miles.

as for the whole yamaha r6 or 748 question, i'll throw my two cents in. trying to break down the question to one of statistics versus cost misses alot. certainly the yamaha has more horsepower, weighs less and costs less. on the other hand, the ducati has more power than most any rider can use, handles better, and has better suspension and brakes than the yamaha. i would bet that on most race tracks, most riders could go as fast or faster on the 748 due to the torque and chassis characteristics. i can't count the number of people i've ridden circles around at the track, them on their 150hp gsxr-1000 and my on my 98hp 916: horsepower is way overrated. ben bostrom may be able to use that extra power, but we certainly cannot. moreover, the ducati is in many respects a work of art, which to many gives it a pride of ownership that endures regardless of the latest set of dyno runs in the back of cycle world.

so if your focus is on cost and horsepower bragging rights, get the yamaha. in many respects it is a superior machine. on the other hand, if you value handling and out of the box race-track performance, and want something that has enduring emotional appeal, get the ducati. you'll pay a premium for it, but to me, it's more than worth it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
ahahahahah
thanks fellas
i can see how 30 yrs ago this would have made a big dif.
but i do appreciate the responses!!!
 

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A 748 would not be enough bike for this prodigy, 996 Punk. After all he already mastered the R6 after a mere six months of ownership. Think about it for a second, after owning ONE streetbike, for only six months at that, he already has the skill level required to be concerend that a 748 just won't be able to cut-it on the street, at least in the horsepower department. He is definitely ready to step up to the R-1. I mean, once you learn stoppies and wheelies, to impress the skirts, what else is left to do on a machine. I only wish that it was as easy for the rest of us. One other thing if power is a concern for you, you should have skipped the Yamaha's altogether and gone for the Suzuki, the horsepower king in all classes right now.

If I'm shootin at ya and ya stay still, your probably safe.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
what can i say its in the genes!!!

actually i am thinking about getting a beater to take to the track so when i dump it i wont care. and dump it i will!

i will leave your "YOUR" forum now. i wouldnt want to bring your nose out from the clouds
 

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LOL. I don't think anyone here has a problem with people coming in and asking questions. It's only when the tone turns sour (slow, heavy, wtf??? /images/icons/laugh.gif) that people start getting irritated. I hope you get your ride on a Ducati Superbike in the near future so your questions are answered. It's not in the numbers but in the feelings you get when riding these bikes. They are great.

 

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djo,

I didn't read your post so this is a bit delayed.

The desmo system was actually invented in the 50's by Mercedes because metalurgy hadn't evolved to the point where valve springs could keep up with their race engines. Ducati still runs it only because it's their gimmick. Not to say that there's anything wrong with it, but springs are definately able to keep up with the scorching 11k redline of the 748. /images/icons/laugh.gif The desmo system is more of a heritage thing with Ducati, and it works, so they stick with it.

 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
that was my whole point! i have no experiance on these bikes i was trying to figure out how a machine with less of an advantage(heavier, slower straightline,less hp) could have an advantage on the track.

i was just stating the facts!
i try to get the whole picture before jumping into sumpin :)

i am far from what the r6 has to offer! or ANY other bike for that matter.

just trying to get a litte education on the diff.
 
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