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I have two children- two boys ages six and two. They watch TV. My wife and I try to keep it to Nick and other at least child friendly shows. One of the things that I am noticing in childrens' and "family freindly" TV is the total lack of respect given to parents. Parents are often depicted as idiots who exist only to be tricked and manipulated by children. Examples that spring to mind are Rugrats- parents are stupid, inept and neurotic-The Fairly Odd Parents- the name says it all. Jimmy Neutron- Parents are less intelligent than Jimmy the boy genius- the list goes on.

Think about that tool time show too (The one with Tim Allen)- mostly the father acts like an idiot and yet once every twenty or so shows, we get a "special" tool time show where despite the fact that the dad acts like a buffoon all of the time, the child is supposed to now accept his advice and respect his opinion on some important social issue the family is confronting.

I compare this to the depiction of parents in "older" television, like the Bradys, Leave it to Beaver, Father Knows Best, My Three Sons, the Courtship of Eddies Father- I am not saying that any of these shows fairly depict reality- but at least they don't degrade parents either subtly or obviously. Is Cosby the only show where the father is willing to tell his children that he brought them into the world and he can take them out????

This sort of issue really bothers me, perhaps because it occurs to me that our children are being taught not only a disrespect for parents, but also for authority - and this is becoming pandemic in our society.

For example- If a teacher came to my father and indicated that I had misbehaved- I got hammered!- that was it- dad was judge, jury and executioner. If he found out later I hadn't misbeahved on that occasion- his attitude appeared to be that he figured I needed the lesson anyway for something I got away with that he didn't know about. This is not the way things are handled in schools these days- ask someone who teaches about this sort of thing. Parents do not want to hear that Jonny has a problem because it forces them to confront the fact that perhaps they need help in the parenting department.

Anyway, I wanted to toss my perhaps totally mistaken perceptions out there. Cheers.
 

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eGunny
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In 4th grade, I thought it would be funny to kick a girl in the butt. I did so, her name was Candy Fogelsang, she had been teasing me.....

I get sent to the office and the principal talks to me and tells me he is going to paddle me. He says he is going to call my father first. I tell him my father will take care of it. My father says paddle him and then send him home. I will paddle him also. So I got it twice...... /wwwthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

I had no idea he would do it that way, let the principal paddle me also.....I can still picture that whole incident today.....
 

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Firstly, I agree with you completely. :waytogo:

Secondly, I am not a parent, by choice, because I'm pretty sure I'd be in jail on some sort of manslaughter charge, having killed my child(ren) out of necessity.
 

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what my dad did, was plant the fear of god in me, what he said, might as well have been decreed by god. I was going to do it, as pointless or inane as it seemed at the time. ANd that fear eventually became respect.

I remember once I was about 8 id guess. we were in the garage, he was talking to some one and I was standing facing him and he was looking over me to my mother or something. he said turn around. i did. he said turn around again. I did. this happened about 8 times(he wasn't looking, so didn't realize I kept turning around 180 degrees each time) when he looked back my direction and I was facing him.

next words out of his mouth were " DAMNIT I SAID ABOUT FACE" you can bet your ass i didn't say anything and turned around AGAIN.
 

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Opening pandora's box. /wwwthreads/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Since it appears you're not after an answer to anything I hope the mini-rant helped. Sometimes it does.

Good luck with your boys.The fact that you care speaks volumes IMO

Pacifico
 

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eGunny
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[ QUOTE ]
cinmike said:
Firstly, I agree with you completely. :waytogo:

Secondly, I am not a parent, by choice, because I'm pretty sure I'd be in jail on some sort of manslaughter charge, having killed my child(ren) out of necessity.

[/ QUOTE ]Mike another story here concerning my father. When I was like 15 or 16 I thought I would test him. We were standing on the back porch once, my brother, him and I. He was talking to us. I decided to run my mouth. The next thing I am laying on my back in the grass......he passed the test.... :waytogo:
 

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I totally agree with you. When I was in elementary school, they still would send kids to the office and paddle them.

It’s the liberals and the effect they have on TV. I agree with you that this is sending out a bad message. But, it has been a message TV has been sending out for years. Remember Charlie Brown? Remember the parents where nothing more than "Won Won Won" on the phone, lol. But, yes, I agree that it is getting much worse.

But, what can you do? I guess move to the country away from the yuppies and hope for the best. Funny how most liberals I've met were young, living in cities and had no kids....
 

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While you basicaly never saw the adults in Peanuts, they were there. They were never bad-mouthed or disrespected. The strip was always about the kids & their lives.
 

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eGunny
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[ QUOTE ]
cinmike said:
While you basicaly never saw the adults in Peanuts, they were there. They were never bad-mouthed or disrespected. The strip was always about the kids & their lives.

[/ QUOTE ]Luch was cool with her advice booth wasn't she...... :waytogo:
 

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I notice that the people advocating hard physical discipline for their kids, are the ones that went through it when they were raised.

My only barometer has been watching my niece grow up. She's not disciplined physically but if she gets whiny or causes any crap then she's told to go to her room, and cannot return until she behaves. Just the threat of sending her away snaps her into line pretty quickly. Positive reinforcement (rewards for good behavior) is also applied.

TV shows depict parents as bumbling fools because kids, like anybody else, want to think they're right. The show is marketed to kids, because parents don't watch them, and when the kids like the show, the parents will buy it to buy themselves some peace (the whole reason parents let kids watch TV in the first place, IMO).

All of which makes me think about capitalism and the merits of our system. Unbridled commercialism leads to a strong economy, but good marketing is directed at what gets people to buy stuff, which isn't necessarily what's good for them.
 

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My buddy has a great story. He was~16 and a smart ass and did something stupid that his Mom called him out about. He kept mouthing off and finally she smacked him.

"That didn't hurt" he said.

She hit him again.

"That didn't hurt" he repeated.

This went on a couple of times more. Then, as he puts it, a shadow comes around the corner, he hears the wind whistle and WHAM gets owned by his Dad who then says "did THAT one hurt?" :bow:

All I know is that my Dad had only to REACH for the belt buckle and my sis and I would shut the HELL up. By the way, I'm supposed to be one of those raving liberals and I'm 100% for keeping kids in line.

...that reminds me - what kind of father do you suppose GW is that his teenage daughters are out boozing and getting busted for fake IDs? Guess it's that conservative news media again. :lol: :bird:
 

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very true Kricket.

I think it also has to do with how the kid behaves to start with. You mentioned your niece and how it works with her. Like my wife when growing up, very little or no pyhsical disiple was needed basicly because she was a good kid to start with.

Me on the other hand, I remember thinking clearly about how strong my dad was and if I could over come him. I was basicly a bad kid, lol. But, a few good pops on the butt and I had a whole different point of view. I had 3 sisters, 2 of which where well behaved. So, personallity does play a roll in this.
 

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:rolling: Well, my father never hit me, mainly because his father was a little quick to the strap, and he decided no way. At first he tried sending me to my room, so I started reading a lot, and am now the avatar of all th nebbish little bookworms in the world. After realizing that I was reading the entire world book encyclopedia, he took to lecturing me. I didn't listen to him tho. I figure a spanking or two would have been much more productive than his approach. As for my own kids, If I ever made the colossal error of getting married, and then compounded that error by having children, I figure a set of decreasing objective rules would work- no sense in just saying no to everything, let the kid figure it out with some advice.
 

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Yeah, I'd agree that personality would be an issue, but I think it would complicate the method more than the overall plan. Like when you talk to people who work with "troubled" kids, be they delinquents or handicapped, it's the same general idea; just requires more work on the part of the authority figure.

Ninja, I'm not sure what you mean here...I agree if you're saying that my view is just as colored by my upbringing as yours.

I do remember from Psychology 101 being told that positive reinforcement is more effective than negative - instead of fearing the bad, the subject comes to embrace the good. It's interesting that people always tend to focus on the bad instead of the good - I wonder what that says about us?
 

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I was just talking about this with Fuzz no less than 2 hours ago. Kids are pretty out of control these days - now, I know I am speaking like an old man, "I remember when we used to respect adults" - but it's true, we certainly have lost a level of respect, and the reinforcement of that ideal via cartoons/shows certainly doesn't help. The threat of a good-old-fashioned asskicking certainly helps, but, I think there's a taught level of respect that travels far beyond a simple threat of physical violence.

I studied Shotokan for a long time from a second-generation sensai, on old japanese man who had learned from the family of the originator. There was never any threat of violence or altercation beyond that expected in the normal practice of the art, yet I would NEVER have considered mouthing off, insulting, degrading, or treating anyone there without the utmost respect. There was an uncrossable line of respect that was drawn, and you would never even think of testing the limit. I remember one time I was sparring with him, and threw a fake footswweep-to-roundhouse - I caught him by surprise, and did not snap the kick quick enough and came in contact with his jaw - nothing hard, I mean, i barely touched him - but we were soft-sparring, and I was not to touch him above the head, and I did. I felt absolutely horrible, and dropped and apologized over and over - I felt like I had dishonered him and myself by doing it, and it was like a wave that crashed over me. He laughed it off, and gave me a nod like "ahh you got that one past me", then quickly kicked my ass to remind me that I was lucky. Now, I have no idea if the simple practices we were forced to follow every day instilled the levels of respect found there, or if it was some subconcious fear of reprisal, or what - but, I would never have done anything that might have disrespected him, the other instructors or that school.

Flip the story - I went to a mostly minority school growing up. The teachers didn't care, the students didn't care, there was no level of respect in either direction, and kids often mouthed off and were quickly thrown out/suspended/etc. I remember watching my principal get beaten senseless by a kid in jr high because he told him not to throw his food.

Now, there was a clear line of distinction between the two. What the difference is, or how you go about differentiating the two, is conjecture - but, it's a shame that kind of respect and character building doesn't occur in our schools.
 

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eGunny
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Crud ~ My pops was a Golden Gloves boxer growing up. As such me and my brother were also by his teaching. When we got out of hand. It was out in the backyard with 16 ounce gloves on. With him sitting on the porch watching and giving advice. By the time fights in junior high and high school came around. It did not take long for the word to get aroung that Byron and Tom could fight. And it was not the tumble around and wrestle fighting. It was they hit the hell out of you. And we had a sister Lelah who was kind of slow. Some dumba** would come along and wanna tease her. Well you know how that story goes...... :waytogo:
 

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eARRROOOOOGA
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[ QUOTE ]
I was just talking about this with Fuzz no less than 2 hours ago. Kids are pretty out of control these days - now, I know I am speaking like an old man, "I remember when we used to respect adults" - but it's true, we certainly have lost a level of respect, and the reinforcement of that ideal via cartoons/shows certainly doesn't help. The threat of a good-old-fashioned asskicking certainly helps, but, I think there's a taught level of respect that travels far beyond a simple threat of physical violence.


[/ QUOTE ]

As a middle school teacher, I'm here to tell you... It's what happens at home that really makes the difference. If a parent takes an active interest in what the kid is doing (IE doesn't let them roam the streets all evening long with all their buddies just so their out of the house) even if it's just a tiny bit of structure, it helps. There is very little respect for authority/adults in some kids. If I knew what to do about it, I wouldn't be teaching kids, I'd be teaching parents ~

JM
 

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I can't remember a single time where my father spanked any one of us, but none of us harbored any illusions about his capability or willingness to do it. Without a word, "the look" was more than enough for any bad behavior to disappear.

Hell, it still is.
 

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eGunny
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[ QUOTE ]
Gruneun said:
I can't remember a single time where my father spanked any one of us, but none of us harbored any illusions about his capability or willingness to do it. Without a word, "the look" was more than enough for any bad behavior to disappear.

Hell, it still is.

[/ QUOTE ]In my book that is called respect..... :waytogo:
 
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