06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14 - Page 2 - Sportbike Forums : Sportbikes Motorcycle Racing Forum
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post #11 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-28-2006, 10:45 PM
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

:


Ok, ok you guys win! Having never studied rocket science in college, or having ever drag raced a single time in my life I will give this one to you both with my tail between my legs! :


My knowledge (or more precisely, 'lack there of'...) came soley from an extensive article I read a long time ago about this guy in the 70's (I think) who built bikes and racing them to hit 'land speed records' on them down at the salt flats. They wrote extensive and fantastically interesting passages about how they tested and perfected the weight issue's of attaining the highest speeds possible (at that time) and how they came to perfect their formula when trying to maintain stability and reach higher speeds. I'm certainly no expert on the matter, but from what I read they would make the bikes as light as they could get them for the initial run. Then they'd add weight on consecutive runs unil they found the golden ticket. They found that adding weight, not only made it possible to reach higher speeds, but also noted how they found it easier to accellerate once past the point of initial enertia (specifically, they mentioned how the heavier bike took off slower of coarse than it had when it was lighter, but once they'd gotten the momentum of the heavier bike going, it accelerated quicker and faster, reaching higher speeds in less distance than when the bike had less mass to it). At a certain point of coarse the weight would finally become a hinderance, so they'd back it back down until they'd reached the perfect balance. I wasn't trying to imply that if they added 100 tons to the bike the faster it would go... but there is definately a balance point. Because no matter how much hp you used, there's no way you could get a 30 pound motorized Mongoose to reach 300 mph on land anyway.

The only other source of information I was using was an article in 2000 or 2001 where they de-restricted both the Hayabusa and the ZX-12R and were trying to crack the 200 mph mark. And at one point in the article Rob Muzzy had mentioned that the extra weight the busa carried was actually it's ' friend ' when trying to reach it's maximum speed.

But anyhow that's where I was coming from. And I thought that perhaps the Hayabusa had found what was basically the perfect balance point of weight for a drag racing bike. But like I have maintained, you boys know ton's more about drag racing than I ever will, so I will bow down to your knowledge and proclaim you the uncontested winners! :


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post #12 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-29-2006, 06:29 AM
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

There does come a time (or more correctly, a speed) where wind resistance matters more than the mass of the bike....hence salt flats testing at incredible speeds. but I don't think we are reaching those speeds at the 1/4 mile track on these bikes. Top speed records are all about defeating wind resistance and staying on the ground. As for very low mass objects exceeding 300mph, try telling that to a bullet. heheh.

:

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post #13 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2006, 09:30 AM Thread Starter
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

Added weight (by itself) is *always* a hinderance to acceleration, bar none, every time, without a doubt. It is an absolute law of physics that cannot be changed, fooled or denied.

Depending upon placement of said weight, you may aid or hurt traction as well as aerodynamics.

Depending upon said weight and the benefits to traction and aerodynamics, you *may* overcome the loss incurred by adding weight. (thus showing an improvement in speed or ET)

Added weight can most certainly improve stability, but to quantify that you would have to throw in other variables like drag, lift, aerodynamics, suspension settings,etc. (ie. what *caused* the instability, and what actually caused increased stability)


It does take more energy/horsepower to GET an object moving than it does to keep it moving. Maybe this is the root thinking of why weight is not as much a hinderance once you are moving, compared to getting an object in motion.
The weight is still a penalty when at speed compared to not having that weight added at all. It's just less of a penalty once the mass is in motion than when you are at a dead stop and taking off.


PS. The Salt Flats offer certain traction challenges not found on the street or track. An imporant consideration.

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post #14 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2006, 03:51 PM
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

Don't make me take into account drag and write the equations of motions based on such.

Bottom line is the object accelerates until terminal velocity is reached (though the rate of accleration decreases) and that acceleration is directly impacted by the mass.

The point being, we do not reach terminal velocity during drag racing on these machines. Therefore, lower weight = good.

We are all in agreement now yes? :

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post #15 of 16 (permalink) Old 04-30-2006, 04:36 PM
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

In the quarter mile... that seems to be a yes! :


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post #16 of 16 (permalink) Old 05-02-2006, 12:55 PM
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Re: 06 BUSA vs 06 ZX-14

WOW I thought I was at a MIT site for a second. :
Good info for those who dont know. :
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